The Search for Clarity
Welcome to The Search for Clarity, a podcast focused on empowering clarity in leadership and execution. Hosted by Richard de Kock, a seasoned Cloud Strategy & Operations Executive Advisor and an Executive & Leadership Coach at www.coachingwithrichard.co.uk. This podcast is a treasure trove of insights for professionals navigating the complex world of business transformation and leadership. Each episode, we sit down with leading industry thought leaders, individuals who have made significant contributions in their fields, to dissect and understand the intricacies of successful transformation. Our conversations aim to cut through the noise, offering clear, actionable insights for senior transformation leaders, consultants, managers, and any professional eager to make a tangible impact in their domain. Whether you're looking to refine your strategy, enhance your leadership skills, or simply gain a deeper understanding of transformation dynamics, "The Search for Clarity" (www.searchforclarity.com) is your go-to resource for guidance and inspiration from the best minds in the industry.
The Search for Clarity
Productive Leadership: "Getting Things Done" role in thriving amidst agility & complexity (Part 1)
Imagine a world where you can achieve peak productivity and reduce stress, all by mastering a few simple techniques. In this episode, we sit down with the legendary David Allen, the brilliant mind behind the iconic Getting Things Done (GTD) system. David shares his remarkable journey from the fields of American intellectual history, personal growth, and martial arts to creating a productivity system that has revolutionized professional workflows at companies like Lockheed. Get ready to discover how his search for clarity amidst a bustling life led to the development of strategies that not only boosted his productivity but also became essential tools for managers and executives.
Ever wondered how to turn chaos into manageable tasks and set clear priorities in a high-pressure environment? This episode delves into the profound impact of David Allen's book, "Getting Things Done." You’ll hear firsthand accounts of how implementing GTD principles has transformed workplaces and professional growth. David breaks down the five stages of gaining control (capture, clarify, organize, reflect, engage) and the six horizons of focus, providing you a structured approach to maintaining clarity in today’s fast-paced world.
Finally, we tackle modern-day challenges like information overload and priority management. David explains how brain science supports the need for structured systems to handle our cognitive load effectively. Learn why our brains struggle with managing multiple tasks without external aids and how GTD provides the solution. By the end of this episode, you’ll understand why GTD continues to be a timeless and essential tool for enhancing productivity and reducing stress. Don’t miss out on valuable insights and resources from the David Allen Company to help you on your journey toward clarity and focused productivity.
Explore more resources by David Allen at:
Getting Things Done® - David Allen's GTD® Methodology
Engage with Richard further: https://linktr.ee/richardekock
Welcome everyone back to the search forarity. We are very excited. Today We've got a legendary guest, david Allen, who created the Getting Things Done, or GTD, system, and today we're focusing on productive leadership. So, david Allen on GTD's role in thriving amidst agility and complexity, and we're going to be uncovering some really interesting topics and discussions around that. So, before we start, I'd like to remind you that the views and the opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the individual contributors, and that this podcast is my own independent effort and it is in no way associated or endorsed with any of my employers or clients, and that this is going to be a two-part episode, as always with David Allen and right. So let's kick off. So if you haven't heard and I doubt you haven't so GTD or the Getting Things Done system is arguably the most influential and well-known productivity system worldwide. David's work with GTD has inspired professionals across various industries to adopt a productivity system that enhances focus, reduces stress and improves overall effectiveness.
Speaker 1:David himself is a productivity consultant, author and founder of the David Allen Company, and the notable work that he's done, of course, is the Getting Things Done, the Art of Stress-Free Productivity in 2001. So, 23 years on the go still strong and it's been translated in over 30 languages and millions of copies have been sold worldwide. It's essentially the defector standard for any personal productivity enthusiast and has been for over the last 23 years, and it's even been referenced in really big, well-known top sellers such as the 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferrissris, deep work by col newport, atomic habits by james clear and I learned about this earlier this week, I didn't know it, but from the scrum book, uh, the art of doing twice the work, and half the time by jeth sutherland as well. So david has uh over 40 years in coaching and management consulting. He has worked with high profile clients, including fortune 500 companies, government agencies and executives, and he is also a very well-known keynote speaker on productivity and workflow optimization.
Speaker 1:And his company, interestingly enough, the David Allen Company, while starting off providing training, coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations wanting to do GTD and consulting services for individuals and organizations wanting to do GTD, they've grown so much due to the popularity of the system that they're now distributed out to 39 trainers and distributors to start driving GTD coaching and training across the globe, and you would have seen David Allen and the GTD system being featured in many major publications such as the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, foss Company and Time. So, david, it is an absolute honor to have you joining us today. Welcome to the Search for Larry.
Speaker 2:Thanks for the invitation. Delighted to be here. Hopefully I can be of help to whoever is listening in some way.
Speaker 1:I am more than certain you will be doing just that today. So, david, I thought to get us started. Maybe you could give us a brief overview of what getting things done system is all about, um, how it got started and where it sits today I'll try to give you a shorter version of that very, very long story, as I can richie.
Speaker 2:But let me start with where it started. I had a background in first of all. I was an American hit intellectual history major in Berkeley in 1968 in graduate school and dropped out to try to learn who I was. And you know, come on, this is 1968, berkeley you know personal growth golden age.
Speaker 2:So I went through all that and then got a black belt in karate and meditation practices and so forth and I discovered the value of a clear head. If you're jumped by four people in a dark alley, you don't want 2,000 unprocessed emails hanging around your psyche. You need to be clear. So yeah, man, I went okay, well, that's cool, but again, I had to. I had to make money, I had to pay my rent. So I wound up helping a lot of people with their own little businesses and then wound up saying, wow, I guess the people paid somebody to do that. They call, call them consultants, whatever.
Speaker 2:So I created my own little consulting practice in 1982. And then my life became slightly more successful on a regular basis and busier and more complex. So I said wait a minute, I'm losing clear space in here. How do I do that? So it was for myself personally, first of all, that I uncovered, discovered unpacked techniques that helped to keep me clear, focused, in control, with more space to think about them cool, meaningful stuff, and so, as I started to cobble those together for myself, I didn't wake up one morning with all this. This was like a series of epiphanets, I guess. And then I started to turn around with my consulting clients because they were out of control, felt unfocused, weren't sure what to do, started to share the techniques I'd come up with with them and it produced the same results More control, more focus, more clarity, more space in their head to think about meaningful stuff. Well, that's cool. So I thought I had sort of uncovered something, really discovered a methodology that produced that kind of clear head space when you got busier and more complex life. So that was sort of the key element.
Speaker 2:We didn't call it coaching back then, but that's really what it was. You know, consulting entrepreneurs and startups and businesses. You know small businesses, and we were my network. And then some big guy in the corporate training world, head of HR at a big corporation, saw what I was doing and said, david, we need that in our whole company. Can you design some sort of a training around what you've come up with that we can then, you know, share that model at least with people instead of just one-on-one. So I did Highly successful, the most successful training program they implemented. It was a thousand. We did a pilot program for a thousand managers and executives at Lockheed in 1983, 84 in Southern California and I suddenly found myself thrust into the corporate training world. Oh my God. Well, they were the ripest audience for what I'd come up with, because they were starting to get hit with the tsunami of email and corporate change and flattened organizations and more accountability being driven down to anywhere.
Speaker 2:So so that I wound up just by. I didn't have. I'm not really an entrepreneur or a major aspirational, you know, monetarily I was more of a researcher and a educator than anything else. So but I then I come up with something that people were willing to pay for and seemed to be very popular, and our marketing was called Pick Up the Phone. Somebody said I heard about you, what do you do? Can you pay?
Speaker 2:And so for the next 15, 20 years I wound up training hundreds of thousands of people, mostly in the US organizational corporate world, and a lot of what my consulting turned into was coaching one-on-one mid-to-senior level people in these organizations who heard about the ER1-12 seminar and said God David, can you sit down next to me desk side and help me implement what you came up with? I have literally spent thousands of hours, quite literally one-on-one desk-tied with some of the busiest, brightest and sharpest people you'd ever meet on the planet, and that really helped me refine and systematize and objectify what these set of principles were. It's advanced common sense. It's not like some new technology or some new language you need to learn. Everybody gets right stuff down somewhere. Everybody has a calendar, which means they've got some sort of an organizational system. So everybody does pieces of this. Very few people really do it so that their head has none of that bothering.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of over the years or the early years anyway, when I discovered at some point somebody said, david, you should write the book. Now, richard, I never had any formal or traditional education in time management, business or psychology. I have a lot of experience with what works, what doesn't work, with very busy people, very you know, who need to be focused on what they're doing. And so anyway, so somebody I had a group of advisors say David, you should write the book. I went how do you write them Write a book? I don't know, but I thought about it. It had been kind of on my someday maybe list to maybe do that at some point. But that was enough of an incentive to say, look, if we want to scale this thing, david, you need to create the manual. So that was my incentive for basically writing the first edition and getting things done. It took four years, from 97 to 2001, actually write the book.
Speaker 1:Four years to write the book.
Speaker 2:To write and get it, you know, handled and published by Viking Penguin, you know, and so I had no idea how popular it was going to be. I just needed to get out of my head and create the manual in case I got run over by a bus. Somebody could pick it up and figure out how to get themselves out of trouble if they ever needed to.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, what you might find interesting is I was starting my professional career, uh, when I just happened to stumble upon your book, and I think that was around 2004 and I remember reading it.
Speaker 1:Um, and you know, my start of my career, ironically, was at a, a small little service desk in a um, a company that manages all the cinemas, so it was the central hub of all the cinemas across the country and basically the service desk was a phone and an Excel spreadsheet that I had to keep track of.
Speaker 1:Everything was going on, with a very big email inbox where, with something broken one of the very many I think it was 60 or 70 cinemas across the country they'd all be sending mails about things that were broken. And so the stress I was well in over my head with regards to phone calls and emails flying in at me, and I'd picked up your book and it, for me, had transformed the way I'd viewed and seen how to be productive and it made a significant, had transformed the way I'd viewed and seen how to be productive and it made a significant impact in my career in making me professional and, of course, many, many others. So I just was, I think, the thing that stood out to me was I'd picked it up, I think, only three years after it had been published and I hadn't realized that, so it was very timely, for me at least. I thought you might like to know my backstory.
Speaker 2:I always love to hear those you know successful war stories about that. I never know what sticks out there, because I'm not a motivator.
Speaker 2:I'm not. I'm not a ta-da, you know, go do this kind of thing. I just my thing was to define the game and then let people play it as much as they might want to play it and do whatever it did when they did that. So I'm always tickled, like now to hear, richard, that you know how early earlier on in the game that you sort of picked this up and started to implement this, because you you can understand it intellectually. If you read the book getting things done, you can understand, oh yeah, well, that's common sense, that makes sense, but you don't get the transformational value of it until you really engage with the practices.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. Would you be able to give us an overview, a brief overview of the system itself, david, and how it just very high level kind of works, so that you know as we dig into it further? People kind of get a just that sort of just.
Speaker 2:Well, there are actually three major parts to the system and let me do a pause button here, if you need to called a promotion of the new book that I and my co-author have just written, called Team Getting Things Done With Others, and we include in that the representation of the three key models of what the methodology I uncovered came up with. Model number one how do you get control of any situation in the environment? And that's a five stages of how do you capture what's got the attention, how do you clarify what you need to do about it, how do you organize results? You can't finish in the moment about that, so you're reminded appropriately. Step four is then how do you reflect on the contents of what all that is? Step five is then how do you have trusted engagement about how you engage acts. You know your focus and your and your resources toward whatever the most important thing is in that moment. So that's the, the control piece, which is a huge piece, and you know most people have a big improvement opportunity about that. And then you have all the hurrah.
Speaker 2:People say, well, how do I set priorities? Once I do all that, then I come up with these dozens, if not hundreds, of things that I need to do, how do I manage my priorities? You say, well, what are your commitments with yourself or anybody else? And that's where I came up with the six horizons purpose principles, vision of where you're going. You've got objectives, you've got things you need to manage and maintain to be able to get there. And then you have a project you need to finish. About all that, then you have action steps you need to take about all that. And so these horizons of focus are also part of the model. Again, I didn't make this up, I just recognize what people really need to do to feel comfortable about their priority or what they do. And the third little piece it's kind of a sleeper inside of getting things done is the natural planning model. If you have a certain situation or project or thing that you need to get clear about fast, you know, here are the things you need to focus on in a specific order that will then allow you to feel comfortable about that in in terms of what you do. So those three things the five levels of control, six, your rise of focus and the natural planning model are the sort of core elements of the system and they haven't changed, you know, since such a rate.
Speaker 2:To get to begin with, I all I did was start to objectify what I'd come up with and learned in those 20 years of my consulting and coaching with people. And then you know, and then sort of wrote it out, and then that became a lot of the core of what anybody who took any of this. You didn't have to do all of it, just pick any piece of this. Again, this methodology is not like running with scissors. It's nothing dangerous in what I just said and nothing unusual. Everybody's doing some version of all this already. So again, I was more a recognizer of the best practices of how do you keep a clear head and stay focused on the most important things with a complex life. And that's really what all this how all this emerged and came about it's still. It's still there, it's still very real, it's still very useful. It will be a hundred years from now. It's very evergreen stuff.
Speaker 1:You've got great checklists as well on the planning front. I mean, the whole interpretation I had of it at the time and still today, was really about identifying all the things that need to be done. And you've got all these various sources like your mail. You can call this the inbox, where we pull in all these things like mails, post-it notes, to-do lists, et cetera, and you've got checklists that you can walk through to look at. You know what projects are on the go that you need to be, you know try and triggering off any next actions that might need to be happening. And you know what's going on at home, what's going on here, which have been really helpful to do a. You know a monthly sort of reconciliation of clearing of the head of all the things that are on the go and that then all feeds into this, uh, this inbox, and and there's this constant processing of this inbox to you know identify.
Speaker 1:You know where things should be sitting in your, in the system, should we say, and the whole system's supposed to be set up in a way where you can put things in it and trust that it will be done and that it will be taken care of, and I think that was a big part of it was ensuring that there was this element of trust, um, so that you could indeed just forget about it, let it get out your head and then, in due time and through the system, when it's time to work on it, that would come up and you would then work on that, that, that task, or that, that piece of work, and then you know, move on and carry on iterating, um, and I and I really like the practicality of a lot of that in the, the book and and the complementary material that you know. I'll share the website details that you made available, including how you can introduce gtd into you know your use of outlook, your use of um one note your use of, uh, microsoft to-do list, etc. And many other different types of applications that exist out there, um, which I found very helpful guides as well, um. So, as a matter of interest, um, david, you've it's it's been around for about two decades now and it's still going strong. What do you think think makes GTD such a timeless and adaptable system?
Speaker 2:Well, because it is a timeless and adaptable system. It doesn't make it that way, but it is that it's a timeless and adaptable system. No matter where you are, who you are, whatever you're doing, when we fly to Jupiter in you know, 2090 or whatever, you still need an in-basket. You still need to decide what's the next action on anything in there you still need to decide. Is that a reference material? Is that trash? You still need to. You know, you still have to focus on outcome and action, which are the core elements of productivity. To begin with, what do we try to accomplish and how do we organize or reorganize our assets and attention to make sure that happens? Do you think that'll ever change, rich? Come on, those are universal questions, universal things to answer, universal things to focus on. Well, I was going to say universal things to focus on.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to say I think the thing that makes it so unique and evergreen is the fact that it seems to be built from principles as opposed to a fancy system. It's the systems emerged, as you've said, I guess, from your exposure to the problems firsthand, that executives have some of the greatest minds, some of the greatest workers that are out there, and that you've sort of distilled and learned the key principles behind human nature, behind the way humans process and deal with information and execute upon it, and I think those are kind of at the root of the system itself, which, as humans, we're not changing all that much in the next couple of centuries, we would imagine. Come on, how long have people kept lists?
Speaker 2:Because it's principle-bound 300,000 years or whatever. Neanderthals did that, so they were something they used to rent on walls. They did things to remind themselves about X, y and Z, so you know that's nothing new. I mean read Benjamin Franklin and z. So you know that's nothing new. I mean, read Benjamin Franklin. Come on, read any. Anybody who's been highly effective in their life has always had some external system of reminder, system of whatever in terms of how they've done that. Lots of different ways to do that, I mean but and so it's, it's totally adaptable, given whatever the technology is and whatever the means and methods are that you have to be reminded of what you need to be reminded of. What's different, richard, these days, is the volume and speed of input that people are allowing into their world. So this is probably a question you had down your list, but that's what's really changed is how many people need to get so much better at this simply because of what they're allowing into their ecosystem.
Speaker 1:David, I think that is probably the fundamental challenge for people nowadays is the fact that it's almost coming to a realization around things like the limit of control we have, or the law of finitude that we as humans have, and the fact that we can never truly control everything that's coming at us and that I think you know we're looking at, the workday for an average leader now would be endless disruptions in the flow of what they're trying to do, priorities that are shifting in minutes, you know, instead of hours, and tremendous information overload. It's just information coming in from every angle. And so what I was curious to hear from you. I've gone through stages where I've become very despondent at my ever-growing, ever-endless to-do list or inbox that just seems to always be filling up, and I'm almost getting this feeling of I'm just never getting ahead of anything. I just feel like I'm falling behind and bottlenecking all the stuff that's happening. So how does that sit with the, the gtd system in trying to help manage that more effectively?
Speaker 2:well, if you don't know what you've committed to, you'll always overcommit. So a lot of what the GDD system does is is give you, make you a lot more conscious about what your commitments are with yourself. So you know, most people haven't kept a project list. They don't have a list of all the actions they need to take about all those projects. They'll always take on more projects. So in our new book we have a whole chapter on no. How do you say no? You're gonna say no when there's a real yes somewhere.
Speaker 2:A lot of people are that not that conscious about the way what the yes is in their team, or even to themselves personally, and so they're just going to take on, take on, take on, take on. And you know, interesting, as you were talking about that, I was thinking even executives at that senior level, legal, and their daughter has got some major issue that she's got to deal with, or a school or whatever, and what do they do with that information? See, that's information that's coming at you just like all the other, and I call this syndrome. You just talked about channel creep. How many channels of information you know are you allowing into your life, or have you created into your life that you then need to then pay attention to, that may have potentially relevant things you need to decide about and take action on or do something about it, and that's that's what's changed. A lot is the volume and input and the frequency of new input. And then see, I don't know, richard, I don't know how old you are, but how old your parents are, but how many times did they have to change and rethink their whole lifestyle and and their high priorities about stuff? Not nearly as many as you, al Dept right.
Speaker 2:So, what's new is how frequently things are new, and so the requirement for people to be really good and really fast at here's the input is that trash?
Speaker 2:is that reference material? Is that? In other words, they need to go through the getting things done process to actually figure out what to do with all that stuff they're allowing coming into slack or evernote or teams or google meet or whatever all those different channels that people are allowing into their lives these days and then you know. If you know what you're doing, it's a great time to be alive. Wow, look at all the cool stuff we could do. You and I could talk to each other. You know right now, like this, yeah, but the bad news is, if your thought process has not caught up with the technology, you're toast. You know everybody wants the new, new, and the new new app is going to give me the thing that's going to get me in control. It's like the new new is just something you're going to have to learn, which is going to add more stress to your life, because you don't know how to make it work on some sort of heuristically automatic basis. Come on, so the technologies outstrip people's consciousness.
Speaker 1:At an emotional level, it can be very difficult to in a moment, decide whether or not something should be focused on, because I think that's part of the problem is everything's almost guising itself as a high priority, highly important thing. That's the thing I've noticed. Um you, you, you think you've got it fairly well established what's really important, but social pressures or, um you, different slants, different angles on different topics, make you sort of start to wonder whether or not, you know, I'm going to fall behind if I don't keep up with this kind of stuff, or I've got to read these books if I want to remain relevant. And and it becomes really tricky and really difficult to really get to the truth behind what is factually important versus what's just noise, what's not important that's, and it's just a difficult one to answer and I might be throwing you a grenade of a question.
Speaker 2:That's where the horizons came up that I identified. I identified the horizons, basically, or rejectified. It was brought in to coach a very, very senior guy at a very successful financial company and global financial company and his big issue was meetings. He was wall to wall for the next two months, three months, but just meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting His assistant. She had turned to toast because she was trying to fend off all these people that wanted this done. So I closed the door.
Speaker 2:He brought me in and and said david, what do I do about all this? He scratched my hips. I wasn't sure what to do. So I went up to his whiteboard and I wrote these different horizons of commitments you know what's your purpose in life, what's your vision about where you want to be and and what the goals you need to achieve to get there and what other things you need to manage and maintain to be able to get there. And then what are the projects you've got about all that and what are the action steps you need to take about any of those moving parts. He looked at that and went got it. I said got what he said.
Speaker 2:I've been letting my teenage kids grow out from under me because I wanted to make Parker in the firm and he said that's not, that doesn't work. So he changed how many things he was committed to, simply because he had to look at those different levels of his own commitments with himself. So you can't get away from that. I can't give anybody an ABC one, two, three, four priority code. I just said you have to figure out what you're doing in your life and sometimes that's not necessary. Sometimes you don't even think about that. Maybe you've got a firing ability or a startup. You just want to go do that Great, go go do that, fine.
Speaker 2:But at some point you may need to make a decision about whether you want to be bought, whether you want to buy, whether you want to. You know what you need to do once. You're going to need to back up your horizons. Wait a minute, what are? What am I really about? What really matters to me? So I couldn't get it any simpler, richard, than than these horizons, these different levels of commitments we have with ourselves, and they're very, very different content. The number of things you need to do at the action level is 100 to 100 to 200. The number of things you need to do at a project level finishes somewhere between 30 and 100, and I don't know areas of focus. Well, you know what are all the things you need to maintain and manage your health, your vitality, your sales, your promotion, your, whatever. What are all the goals you might have about any of that, and you know. And then, what's your vision five years from now? You know, while it's successful, but by what and by the way, it's all that on purpose, and you know.
Speaker 2:And so I yeah, those are all very different discussions to have a very different content. You're going to show up with whether you need to do those or not. In a way, I don't care. I cared other, I wouldn't do this work, but that doesn't matter. You may not need to focus on any of those yet I say what do you need to do? To be very clear, so you can go to sleep tonight with nothing on your mind? That's it.
Speaker 2:That's the whole driver of my whole methodology and technology was what do you need to do to make sure nothing is on your mind except what you want on your mind right now? So you want to be. You don't want to be waked up at three o'clock in the morning by something you can't do spit about, right. So how do you get that off your mind? I just figured that out. So that's, I think, why gtd and this whole methodology is becoming more and more important, because people are just getting more and more buried by the things they're allowing into that life and their work I'm hoping, of some form of enlightenment where you know your, your finitude as a, as a human is, you know, we start to realize it?
Speaker 1:because I think we are. We are pushing the brink of how much we can commit to and execute against. And all these new channels and this channel grief, as you called it, um, it's just compounding, really, um and I can replay how I've sort of interpreted what you're saying is it's really you're providing a structure to help give you control over the information that's coming into you and a perspective, but you still need to be able to decide and discern what's truly important to you, because that's going to be unique to everyone. And how you go about then using GTD to help you best manage the important stuff versus the non-important stuff is essentially what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2:For sure, and that could be very different than when you're 29 or when you're 78, like me.
Speaker 1:It could be very different. It actually could be very different tomorrow. I've definitely seen the changes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on, richard, you and I are both going to be smarter, hopefully, tomorrow than we are today. So you know I use all these. You know goals or purpose or vision or any of that as working hypotheses.
Speaker 2:for now, I'll use that as a driver of what I think is important and what I need to do or not do. But I'm willing to change that tomorrow if I get better data, and oftentimes I do. So you know, don't get too hung up on any of these structures, but you do need a structure to be able to then form those questions and to format the uh context where you're going to do something. That's a very, very difficult thing for people to do. That's called think, and I know I'm going to challenge everybody.
Speaker 2:I'm saying thinking is hard. Just try to write a book and you'll find out right Thinking is. Or just trying to write it. Just try to design a PowerPoint presentation, you'll find thinking is hard. Just trying to write it. Just trying to design a tower point presentation, you'll find thinking is hard. It takes. It takes mental horsepower to be able to do that. Most people think they're thinking all day. No, they're not. They're just reacting. You know to, basically you know input that's coming in and they're just dealing with latest and loudest and then their brain is just going okay, whatever you're. So your brain's a fabulous servant, but it's a terrible master and unfortunately, most people are trying to use their mind as their office. And your mind is such a crappy office. Your brain did not evolve to remember, mind, prioritize or manage relationships between, more than guess how many things Work. That's it Now.
Speaker 2:I discovered that 40 years ago, but now the brain scientists in the last 20, 10, or 15 years have now uncovered. That's the truth. As soon as you try to keep more than four things just in your head and not reminded in some extra, you're going to be suboptimal in terms of your choice. You're going to be driven mostly by latest and wildest, as opposed to intuitive, strategic intelligence, and so don't shoot the messenger at just what this. That's why this process works and why it's not going away and it's increasing in its popularity, I guess.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you very much, David. It's been a really informative episode one. We're going to do our next episode in about two weeks, where we will start to explore further some of the challenges around trying to adopt GTD, and thank you so much for joining us. For everyone else, I'll put the links in our podcast and on the YouTube channel where you can go and explore the resources that are available from the David Allen Company. And, yeah, until we meet again, enjoy your search for clarity. All the best, everyone, bye.
